| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Jas Dor
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
122
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Posted - 2012.04.11 17:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
As it currently stands, it looks like CCP will make mining the major source for low end minerals.
With mining barge and exhumer tanks where they are high sec mining for low requires players to accepted the very real possibility of being ganked. Bot owners are fine with being ganked, its a cost of business on a throw away account. Players on the other hand hate being ganked. It leaves a permanent loss mail tied to the account. It also shows the player getting caught doing something stupid enough to give away and easy kill. While stupid might simply mean mining in a belt, players will tend to avoid such activities.
We've seen this with low sec. Players absolutely refuse to engage in conduct that requires them to self select to be victims. Instead we get a bunch of whining on the forums, then if CCP does not intervene abandonment of the feature/activity. Invariably, those looking for easy kills will blame the lack of such kills on carebearism. Unfortunately, such claims have until recently had great weight with CCP. What is normally not recognized is that refusal to participate is the antithesis of carebearism. One of the first (and hardest) steps of being a successful PvPer is not doing stupid things that are going to get you killed. Self selecting to be a victim is stupid.
CCP has decided to tie the eve economy, directly, to the willingness of players to self select for victimhood. The current state of mining follows the classic pattern of feature abandonment:
1. New Feature Becomes Available (CCP bans mining bots, starts removing non mining mineral faucets).
2. Players try out the newly profitable feature.
3. Players loose ships and realize that the mechanics of the feature require self selecting victimhood.
4. Players point out to CCP that the mechanics of the feature are stupid.
5. Players abandon the feature when CCP does nothing about it.
Right now we are in the state of people trying mining again for the first time in years. They are finding how poorly tanked barges are and complaining/exiting the feature. As a result of tying a core component of the economy to players self selecting to be victims we are seeing a major increase in inflation. This will continue until some equilibrium is reached with the non-mining mineral inputs still in the system and/or it becomes profitable to mine low ends in protected null sec space.
Most likely though is sudden, explosive, subscription loss when the inflation situation makes continuing to play this game untenable. |
Jas Dor
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
123
|
Posted - 2012.04.11 18:17:00 -
[2] - Quote
Adunh Slavy wrote:Jas Dor wrote:
Most likely though is sudden, explosive, subscription loss when the inflation situation makes continuing to play this game untenable.
I doubt that will be the case. At least not in the dramatic scene of players running for the hello kitty hills.
I note the use of the past tense. Yes, you managed to avoid a gank, but how many buffs to gank ships ago was that? |
Jas Dor
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
123
|
Posted - 2012.04.11 18:20:00 -
[3] - Quote
Roime wrote:Your whole thought structure is based on the stubborn fallacy that mining is a solo activity that can only be performed in high security space.
Mining does not make anyone a victim. Being unorganised, unwilling to co-operate with others and doing it in the wrong place makes one a victim. It is therefore no different from any other activity in EVE.
Are you claiming that group mining in low/null is an efficient way to get minerals into the game? A once a week corp mining op for a couple hours isn't going to meet the mineral demand in this game.
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Jas Dor
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
124
|
Posted - 2012.04.11 18:29:00 -
[4] - Quote
Nimbat wrote:I long for the day when faction ships are an awesome and rare sight and when the majority of EVE flies T1 ships.
It would be amazing.
Bak in the day PvPers always flew the best ship that they could. Only lack of SP drove the use of inferior ships. Faction ships started appearing more in PvP when CCP added them to the market. Prior to that they lacked the visibility for widespread use.
If you make PvP ships navfordable PvPers will quit. They will not downgrade the ship types they fly.
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Jas Dor
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
124
|
Posted - 2012.04.11 18:38:00 -
[5] - Quote
Just a quick note. If I did the math right a JF cn haul around 360m units of trit in the form of compressed veld. Those that understand logistics will grasp why this means that significant amounts of trit will not be coming from 0.0. |
Jas Dor
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
125
|
Posted - 2012.04.11 23:43:00 -
[6] - Quote
Xylorn Hasher wrote:
You are wrong Liang.
Most pirate corps have strong industrial alt corps. How do you think who is making CAP ships, drugs, T2 ships and other stuff?
Large part of it is made in lowsec by us.
I went outlaw one and half a year ago with around 800m in wallet. Now its more than 15 Bils in cash and more than double in hardware. All was earned in lowsec by that time.
So dont worry bout us :)
Might I humbly suggest that
1. Now that this has been moved to Market discussion the quality of the posting seems to be improving; and
2. A low sec pirate who reads market discussion might not be representative of the average 0.0 line pilot (for one thing you have the good sense to do something more fun than being a 0.0 line pilot). |
Jas Dor
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
125
|
Posted - 2012.04.12 00:16:00 -
[7] - Quote
Hum. I find it surprising how many people here are rejecting the simple concept that eve is a game and people playing a game will not adopt the role of victim. Sure folks will lose ships PvPing. Getting into a ship who's role is to be an easy kill for somebody else, not so much.
Trit averaged 5.89 yesterday. It's averaging 6.19 as we speak (nope make that 6.20 on sell orders). That's a tad over 17.8m/hour from mining and rising. I hate to point this out but it doesn't look like players are much interested in getting ganked in mining barges for the what the market is currently willing to pay them. |
Jas Dor
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
128
|
Posted - 2012.04.12 03:00:00 -
[8] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote:the reason you are wrong OP is that you assume that everyone cares as much about losing ships as you do. i myself regularly scan down low class WHs and clean them out in a cheap BC. if i get ganked, i eject and warp to the exit hole without losing a second thought. and i can also confirm that i am not the only one doing this, i even met a guy who was solo MINING in a C2 once.
TL;DR: people don't care about losing ships, therefore you're wrong.
What makes you think that I am arguing from personal feeling and not a string of observations about player behavior. You yourself are helping to prove my thesis. You indicate that you do not mind dying, in a relatively low probability event (killed in a WH), without social stigmatization (**** happens in a WH), while doing something relatively interesting. Yeah, I don't mind the occasional ship loss from living outside of empire either.
There is a big difference from doing something relatively secure and signing up to do a stupid. Becoming gank bait in a barge is signing up to do something stupid. So is carrying 1B in a T1 hauler. Both are things people either don't do or only do once. Right now we are seeing a bunch of people going "tried it, got ganked, got the message about mining in high sec." Unfortunately unless a significant number of lemmings volunteer to be gank bait in high sec, low end prices will continue to rise.
As indeed they have. |
Jas Dor
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
128
|
Posted - 2012.04.12 16:00:00 -
[9] - Quote
Talisa Latarien wrote:Not willing to depose the "We're all going to die" approach to the problem, but I think it's quite natural that there's a connection between profitability and security of mining. The higher the mineral cost (especially, Trit), the more it costs to build a T1 gank ship and modules for it. Now, some equipment comes from ratting, missioning, etc, but ships do have to be built. And, as mentioned earlier, Concordokken=no insurance. On the other hand, mineral prices going up means more profitability for miners. So, at some point in time the price of expendable alpha ships will be comparable to the price of expected loot from an average mining setup. And loot is pretty random (unless someone is crazy enough to mine T2-fitted and alone at the same time) - salvaged stuff worth 2 mil from several abandoned BC wrecks at a gate the other day, while getting 50 mil worth salvage from one hisec belt rat frig. So the only question is, how high will the mineral prices go now that minerals from drones are out of this game, and refining mission loot is now marginal at best. Correct me if I am wrong.
Considering that a mining barge can be ganked by a destroyer, this seems more likely to result in an inflationary spiral than eventual stability. |
Jas Dor
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
129
|
Posted - 2012.04.12 18:55:00 -
[10] - Quote
Time to market and gank risk of the hauler are also inflationary pressures. If it takes an hour to haul to market prices will rise to reflect this. If gank risk caps the maximum amount that can be hauled at less than the capacity of the hauler, prices will also rise to reflect this. Sure you might be able to mine in Khanid, but can you efficiently get the minerals to market? |
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